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The unexpected probability result confusing everyone

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The unexpected probability result confusing everyone

#unexpected #probability #result #confusing

“Stand-up Maths”

Thanks to Dylan from Seattle for sending this amazing maths fact to me. You can see an archive of their ChatGPT conversation here:

Thanks to Grant from 3blue1brown for putting actual work aside and talking probabilities with me on a…

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40 Comments

  1. I'm working on a system right now that replaces d20 rolls with 3d8 rolls to normalize roll distribution. For advantage, instead of rolling twice and taking the higher value, you roll 4d8 and take the THREE highest numbers. For double advantage, you take the best 3 of 5d8, and so on. For disadvantage we do the same, except we take the bottom 3 dice in each case.

    Any idea how to calculate that?

  2. Clearly taking the square root of the D36 cannot and is not equivalent to taking the maximum of two D6s. For one, as opposed to what is claimed in the video, it doesn't solve the resolution problem. If anything, it creates it! For the maximum of two D6s has 6 possible values, whereas the square root of D36 has… 36 possible values.
    So what did you mean, @standupmaths? Did you want to say that the expected value is the same, or what?

  3. So does that mean that when rolling N dM with advantage,
    u=E(x from 1 to M)[(x/M)^(1/N))]?
    (u being expected value) I tested it with excel and it kinda works…
    UPD: I discussed it with DeepSeek and it gave me another formula:
    u=E(x from 1 to M)[x(((x/M)^N)-(((x-1)/M)^N))]
    which one is more correct?

    UPD2
    According to Deepsek the formula is
    u=E(x from 1 to M)[x(((a/M)^N)-(((a-1)/M)^N))]
    with
    a=x if rolling with advantage
    a=M-x+1 if rolling with disadvantage

    UPD3
    About a disadvantage
    Powering instead of rooting (is that the right word?) works!
    u=E(x from 1 to M)[(x/M)^N]
    The question remains though, if what DeepSeek gave me is more precise.

    UPD4
    I tested mine and AI formulas against the Monte-Carlo method. The AI's results differ far less from it. So it won, I guess…

  4. Why is Matt holding one d6 under a radical and two more in a MAX function? Hear me out….

    If we select random numbers from 0 to 1 our expected average will be 1/2. If we look at their square roots, we indeed get an expected average of 2/3. And if we look at two random numbers between 0 and 1, the average larger value is right at 2/3. The general content of the video is spot on.

    However, if you roll a 6-sided die you will expect to get each of the 6 faces equally, so the expected average of the square roots would be (1 + sqrt(2) + sqrt(3) + 2 + sqrt(5) + sqrt(6))/6, which is about 1.81. But the maximum of two d6 rolls on average will be 161/36, about 4.47. I'm only an amateur mathematician, but I can see that these are two values which are not the same value.

    (If we instead choose any random real number from 0 to 6 rather than just the faces of the dice, then the square root one averages to (I think) 2sqrt(6)/3 (about 1.63) while the max is 4 exactly.. One is going to be 2/3 of the largest number, the other is 2/3 of the square root of the largest number.)

    So I'm confused by what the thumbnail is trying to say. It definitely works when the range of random numbers is 0 to 1, but look at f(x) = sqrt(x). At x = 0 f(x) = 0 and the slope is undefined/vertical. The outputs grow fast, but when we reach x = 1/4 the slope has dropped to 1. At x = 1 the slope is 1/2. (The slope at x = k is (2sqrt(k))^-1.) Past 1, the square roots grow too slowly to keep up with the max of two numbers in that range. So in the specific range 0 to 1 I can state that yes, the sqrt and the max are equivalent. Past 1, though, that stops happening. So this won't work with dice, unless they are numbered 0 to 1.

    EDIT: At 14L00 he does mention this, but my note remains.

  5. so we're increasing the length of the interval by 2 each time, and not only that when we've got 2 numbers that are equal because they were both made by adding up exactly the same numbers! You know we lost somebody for a while to the drink, but now he's back and he's a bit worried about cracks in the earth but he's talking about g-d too! What we got so far are imposter numbers and if we booze these numbers they remain imposter numbers but they take on some properties of normal numbers, like they behave normally under equals. Now these imposter numbers usually need to be separated from normal numbers but its the negative roots that mean you can't really get rid of them, the usual way to determine if you're dealing with an imposter number is to examine its identity function, and if it isn't an imposter number it will only behave like one for the purposes of the examination – simple quantum physics really.

  6. What a clickbait, the dices… i calculated it with dices and result was 11/216 that sqrt(x) > max (x1, x2). Which means that obvious choice is to chooe max(x1, x2). And then i thought no way that sqrt(x) is better choice and watched this video :)

  7. Looking at the ball with the one "not a hexagon" gives me a wild amount of anxiety. I REALLY want to turn it so that I don't have to see the one weird side. I know there is a story behind it, but it still doesn't help my insanity.

  8. im a little late to the party, but why you need a visual proof for n > 3? i mean the concept is clear and with the assumption of independence you get

    P(max(X)<R)
    = Π P(X_i < R)
    = Π R
    = R^n
    = P(x<R)

    edit: chat gpt proof at the end is actually correct, what a surprise.

    i am pretty sure that is a standard math example in probability courses at university.

  9. quantum programming uses like between this range increase the probability of the solution occurring based on the program. So its basically test all those states at once but the values that return true flip the q-bit and at end vastly increase that chance picked at random would return. The probability of square root being max choice, maybe able to speed up a quantum algorithm. This video may improve quantum programming techniques. lol.

  10. In the end matt used a single D36 to simulate 2 D6's, but I feel like the more fun task would be to figure out how to take normal die (like D6's) and figure out perfect ways to simulate bigger die.

    For example, you should be able to perfectly simulate a D20 with 2 D(sqrt(20)) die!

  11. It's not surprising that chaptgpt answered correctly. Dylan guided chatGpt to the correct answer, effectively teaching it a new property. They didn't ask about random numbers in general, but used a specific function rand() found in many programming languages that have a specific domain. It is like asking chatGpt why the sky is blue? Or what is the color of Napoleon's white horse?

  12. This is describing a process of identifying outputs of a function.

    Knowing nothing else about the two functions (especially the inputs at any given time) results in a {number space} that are identical, or near identical.

    The use-case for this is in reverse engineering a {black box function}

    However; the use-case for each of these examples is obviously different.

    And therefore; in order to determine the actual value {functional value}{or use-cases} you need to also know what the input values *are*.

    Otherwise you could make the mistake in [objectively identifying] a function {or perhaps some mathematical observation about reality} as something it is definitely not.

    Love the observation.

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